-: The one thing, here you go,
for your non-essentially soreness.
If you're doing your neurologic program and your workout
the first 15 or 20 minutes, you got to spend
on the foam roller to fix your squat form
because you know, like, Oh my little backs
a little bit too sore today
and I got 10 squats a day so something it's probably off.
That's probably some non-essential.
It shouldn't take you 30 minutes on doing forward
and get your squat form, right?
But you see that in power lifting,
you see that all the time guys are squatting
and dead lifting three days a week.
And like you know, bar
or have fit their proper starting position is
like all these warm up crap they have to do
because they're still so beat up.
And he's off a little bit on that one, right?
That's not a true neuro program.
I always tell with the neuro programs
like you should be ready to go for the session ahead
like really ready to go.
And it's about performance,
it's about going into the gym
and hitting all the progressions and all the markers.
And you get to the gym and hit those markers, right?
You were, there is no recovery about it.
You are ready to go to the gym that day.
There's nothing, that's a little bit recover, you know?
You're ready to go.
That is a big, big thing for neuro,
because just to get that needle to move
those, to get that stimulus
to get those adaptations, to get that needle to move
it is hard flipping work in neuro
and you have to be ready to go for that.
So like you said, when you go in and you're trying to squat
and you know, your quads are sore, okay.
My quads are still sore I'm trying
to deal with it at squats.
Like you shouldn't need the foam roller to do all that.
Something is off and honestly.
this all might back and still works. That is off.
The program is off.
That comes neuro.
That'd be my biggest one there too.
Actually, people don't actually train in neuro.
We're still doing sets of 10, for some reason.
-: Yeah.
-: These sets of 10.
I don't do sets of 10.
I just, I sweat when I hear sets of 10.
Yeah. So yeah, that is not neuro.
Oh, but I'm doing descending reps.
12, 12, 10, 10, 8, 8.
That's a lot of work, man. That's, no.
Go lower. Go lower.
-: Lower.
-: Yeah. And it's okay.
Even though if you're not big and strong, you could use sets
of four and five and get lots of good adaptations.
And I think that's me express it actually
in certification too, that when you have a client
the big thing with neuro too is to make sure
with your client they understand
what the goal of that phase is.
Like, what they should be looking for to, you know
so that, that they're relaying the data to you.
What you're looking for.
Right. That's a big thing with, with neuro too.
So they understand what they're going
to the gym or in their nutritional protocol.
They understand the goal
of the face and what things are looking.
And I really, really liked
that you put performance is number one.
I thought the sleep would be number one
but I liked the performance is like
this is a big thing here that you look for in neuro.
And to be honest with you, I'm not afraid to say it is, Hey
when you're progressing neuro it's like
that's what everybody progresses.
And everybody around you
like everybody progressing their hypertrophy programs
probably the way they're
it's actually probably like you're progressing on you own.
Try to move heavier weights, go up, you know
that's how everybody's progressing their programs.
Then that's just a neuro program.
-: Yeah. I mean, how many, how many times have you
been having crappy sleep, but still made progress
-: My entire life, right.
Entire career.
I haven't had, as you said, the digestion
-: It's just that like, I mean, it sleep's an issue.
You should be addressing it.
But I mean, really the thing that matters for this is
you know, those performance metrics, they're just
they're just bigger tellers for that.
-: Well, Castlemont nation as a performance lifter.
And we do, we didn't do weight cuts.
We don't sleep the day or the night before.
Like for two days before we don't sleep sometime.
Cause we're too busy sweating.
Right. And we still hit records.
So yeah.
It's not, no, it's not.
That's so messed up when you say it out loud.
-: And a caveat for you guys,
because Adam brought up like the
you know, the 12, 12, 10, 10, eight, eight thing
is when you, when you guys are looking at these programs
a lot of times you have to remember that rep reign just
to just lower, because for the intensity perspective
sometimes it has to be lower because that's the only way
that you're going to get the volume that you need to get
you know, to actually accomplish the stimulus.
Cause you need like for neurological, it's all
about getting the exposure to that stress.
So if you, I mean, if your rep ranges are too high
you just simply can't tolerate the volume to get
enough exposure to get as much of those neurological areas
As you could.
-: The one thing to let you set it's really, really super
super ridiculously important is I just call it
like technical failure.
So when you're pushing failure
especially in a big integrative movement, like a squat bench
or deadlift, but even in a machine or even
in a plate loaded press or something, it's really looking
for that compensation, that technical breakdown, you know
if you're doing a four, six week phase
we should not be having that in these first, early weeks.
Like you said, maybe that last week
we're trying to push, you know, we have a deal coming up
but I'm really hard about technical failure.
Even with my competitive lifters, if it breaks down
I don't care if it moves fast
I don't even care what your tingling unit says.
If I'm looking at your body
and that technical breakdown has occurred, we that is wrong.
We are done at that point.
The plate will not get heavier.
It doesn't get better magically, somehow people, I was in a
it wasn't thinking about at that time
this is pretty heavyweight to not be thinking
about. Like, I don't know
if you can think your way through that, like fix that.
That's a technical breakdown that is compensation, you know?
So that is a big, big thing for little things.
And even in a plate loaded press can see
that the shoulder shifting, you know, that's the thing.
Okay. All right.
That I don't care if you get it
that's not the rep, but we know
but if I get the rep, it's not a PR no, it's not.
We're getting there a different way.
So that's the biggest thing, man.
That's a big, big component of that.
So I just love the whole performance of the workout.
All the little details is what you really need to
be observing here in this space.
-: Cool. All right, let's go through of these questions here.
Job's asking if we like any of like the readiness tests
you know, like the grip dynamometer, you know, high jumps
stuff like that.
(siren wailing)
Can you hear that siren?
Oh, all right.
And good, it's gone.
Okay. Or hopefully far enough away.
Sorry about that.
So what I would say job is is that the confidence intervals
and those things are pretty low.
And there's a lot of
there's a lot of confounding variables.
Like, I mean, how many things could impact, you know, your
your vertical on that day.
You could everything, everything from not just
neurological fatigue, but any sort of local fatigue.
So depending on where you do that test in relationship to
you know, how you trained, what muscle groups, et cetera
whatever your body, weight fluctuation.
So water retention, stuff like that.
I mean, you could have an athlete come in
and they're five pounds heavier.
I mean, that's going to have an impact on their
on their vertical jump there.
So what I would say is like
and I'm not going to claim to be an absolute expert in this
but I think the confidence interval
of those things is fairly poor compared
to actually tracking the performance where you
see these things mostly used is in like team sports
and stuff where they need something that is
like a lower time commitment than actually tracking all
of their loads in somebody like actually going
through all of the spreadsheets or whatever, you know
they basically need like a green light red light
on whether or not you can do stuff today.
And that's kind of what they're looking for.
And I think if you, in a personal training environment
or a private coaching environment
I think that you can be, you can have, you can look
at a bigger picture and get a better assessment than that.
I don't know if you, I mean, Adam
I'm sure you use some of this stuff back at Mizzou, right.
Adam: Yeah we used HRV all the time
and we use actually at some point too
cause we just didn't have enough HRV monitors.
We use to actually the finger cap test.
And, but, but you hit the head on the hip.
Sometimes with that, that, that comes out that like
that's the way that you do it.
But to be honest with you, no, like
you have to remember where
that the environment put that into context.
Like you said, that's the NCAA.
And there are times when you're
in the gym with two coaches, qualified coaches
observing 30 lifters at once in six different squat racks
with other guys trying to hide
from you behind running behind your back.
Right. So in a personal training setting, you would probably
I would rely on way more than like an HRV, right?
And this, that conversation
that you're having with the client, the biomarkers and stuff
in the highest level, that's what you would prefer to do.
So when people say like, Oh no, you know, we use that
you know, the strength coach for the Packers uses HRV
and those like this, because he has to, because he's looking
at 30 lifters at once, you know, I'm sure
if he had the time, he would rather just to be talking
to that person individually
and figuring that stuff out and having conversations
with your clients is a real easy way to figure
out what their HRV or their readiness score is, you know?
Absolutely.
-: Yep. Curtis asks, would you use a linear loaded
neuro worry about, worried
about crossover stimulus and not de-loading properly?
I mean, I don't quite understand the question for sure.
I mean, linear loading in terms of
so like say if we're going to do like six sets with the
the same load across all of those, I mean
I think there's there's application
for that and the ascending load both.
I really think it, I really don't see is that, that
that you would always go one way or the other.
What I find is that, you know
with more advanced people that are working
at relative higher intensities, they're going to
use an ascending load type option more often.
And I think your intermediate people
those might be the ones where you can kind of flip back
and forth between both.
I know some people like to use linear loading within
you know, essentially they're looking
at an RPE climb over the course of that.
So like the first, so if they're doing six sets of six
that the last set
of six has a certain RPE and the first set had
a second RPE that there's people where it's
like we're using that same thing
but we're looking at the fatigue.
I would say what you have to do is based
off of that athlete. is look at which one
of those options is going to give them the best exposure
at the relative intensities that fit the goal.
So I think further away from competition
maybe you could use a little bit more linear loading
closer to competition, probably more ascending load.
I don't know if Adam agree with me on that
but I'll let him share his view.
Adam: Absolutely. No, I agree with that very well.
And actually there would be chasm hundreds.
No, there'd probably be well over a thousand listeners
in Europe, Russian listers that use the step
loading program that you have the linear loading in a way
from the off season versus like something ascending loading.
Yeah. That's kind of actually, my method works really well.
And also you get a lot
of coaching feedback from me that do it better.
I want to go up, do it better, do it better.
-: Curtis asked what if the movement is crisp
but the velocity is slow
on the final set slash failure set, et cetera.
So what, what
what I would say is there are certain lifts where
you can be compensating with very little visual change
and that's likely what's, I mean
that's not always what's going to happen there
but that may be, so it would, it would be dependent
on the lift on whether or not I would assume
that it was like, for instance, on a hack squat
you can be compensating a shit-load on a hack squat.
And it still just looks like a hack squat
right? Like, just because your glutes kicked in
like you're still going for through knee extension
hip extension, you know, maybe even getting some adductor.
So unless the motor pattern gets like really bad
it was not going to be
with that much of a visible visual change.
But on a squat you might see more
and on a unilateral movement, you'd see even more.
So what you have to do is take
into context what the movement is
and then kind of, you know
evaluate what you're seeing based off of, you know
what could have a freedom is there within that movement
versus how much compensation can just be hidden because
of the movements is a little bit more constrained or
you know, close chain.
Job asks would a coordination
program be a safe start with fat loss client
where you have not a good picture
of the big blocks, like sleep digestion, energy mood
want to focus on improving nutrition, training technique.
I mean, you have different
different ways of looking at it, right?
I mean, what I would say for a beginner person
I'm going to focus more physiological
than neurological because they're gonna
like every program comes with neurological adaptation.
So somebody does a chest press or a dumbbell press.
If they're new enough, they're getting
they're improving their ability to coordinate their pecs
their delts, their triceps in both of those movements.
So I actually lean
towards choosing movements that are simpler to perform
in the beginner so that I could really focus
on the physiological goal that I want to achieve
and not have to worry about coordination
getting in the way of the physiological adaptation.
Cause maybe I'm just trying to, you know, whatever
whether I'm focusing on local or systemic or more aerobic
like I want those adaptations to come and I'm going to know
that some neurological adaptations are going to, you know
come along with that
especially cause you're trying to make a good impression.
Like if a beginner comes in, they're not hiring me to
because they wanted to be really coordinated
at moving dumbbells through space right there
they're hiring me for fat loss.
And so I'm going to choose the exercises that make it as
easy as possible for them to get fat loss, knowing
that if they come in with no motor coordination, whatever
doing anything that loads
that issue is going to move me in the right direction
from a neurological and a coordination perspective.
I'm going to focus specifically
on coordination when that's more relative
to the person's goal, you know, or
or it's relative to an exercise that I need to incorporate
for their goal in a subsequent program.
Did you have something you wanted to add on that Miller?
It sounds like no.
Okay. Curtis says is N one's a sending load
and inlands is sending load loading program.
There are sets that are eight to 10.
What is the logic behind that is for her? (laughs)
-: Well, I can add some context there.
-: Alright
First through video that goes
through the logic of both the ascending load programs.
The one you're referring to is the ascending load one
which is like the very beginner version.
So your main movements
you're hack squat already in L and stuff.
Those are ascending load with eight reps.
The stuff that's being used for like eight to 10, that's
like your secondary movements where you're just
getting a little bit of tension
in the other range of motion.
So like your leg extensions, for example, on some
of the smaller muscle groups that might be
a little harder to stabilize at those higher intensity.
It's like medial delts, perhaps a tricep push down.
Those reps are going to be a little bit higher.
Again, were con,
This is in the context
of a neurological coordination program for a newer person.
So they're still practicing your ability to stabilize.
So we're not giving them like sets
of six on some kind of lateral raise
because that's going to be hard to stabilize.
So it's choosing the rep range
for the goal that we're after.
It's not a maximum intensity program for an advanced lifter.
-: That's a program where, you know
that's as close to double-dipping
as we kind of get where it's just like, that's kind of like
this is a neuro slash hypertrophy-ish program
at the same time where, you know, it's not about like
this is, this is that it's not like, okay
this is somebody that's like wanting to get super strong.
It's like, all right, this is
this is something where we can get
in the same rep ranges that we can kind of get stronger.
Also the same rep ranges that are going to
be relatively her purchase fee stimulating
and likely also a little metabolic as well.
Right. So that would be a beginner ish program.
Like you wouldn't do that on year two.
Yeah.
-: And then again those rep ranges are
only like weeks one and two
and then it drops down from there.
So it's like, all right, practice your movements.
Figure out your lows.
Now we're going to get some intensity.
Adam: Charles lived there.
Charles was all about functional hypertrophy.
Right? You were.
Yeah, absolutely.
So that program is like more like neuroendocrine
but it's, it's, it's like a hypertrophy program though.
Cody, if I remember correctly
when we put it on the board, right.
Cody: It's ascending load.
I mean the, the RPE start at like six.
Adam: Yeah. Right.
Cody: Practice movement, and then ramp it up.
And again, that's when the first two weeks
and then it drops down to like sixes and eights
Adam: And Curtis, I think the key thing too,
there is to realize
that ascending load is not just a neurological program.
You can run for hypertrophy too.
We just really like them for neuro metabolic.
No don't say that.
No, no, it's not possible.
We do some weird stuff.
Curtis: What I had, I had like a two to four flow out.
I don't know something.
It was like six sets of two or whatever with like a set.
Yeah. Like every, everyone went up and load.
Adam: Tell them, It's not, it's not
part of the neuro conversation but tell me
about what the weird
incomplete rest thing you gave to me the other day that
I mean, you said you remember it was 12 cents to four.
Yeah. That was horrible.
Curtis: Yeah. 12 sets of four. What'd you
how much rest did you end up using 40 seconds?
Adam: Yeah, it was incidentally
you know, my stopwatch went out, so it turned to
be like two minutes and four seconds for starters.
Curtis: Two minutes is still incomplete rest.
Yeah. Yeah.
Alright, cool.
Job says, will there be more general athlete
programs becoming relevant and one training
like speed or power in the long term?
I will, I would say yes.
Jobs are eventually going to get there
but don't expect it anytime soon.
Cause we still have a lot to add on the
the physique sphere.
And that's just kind of our, our specialty right now.
So you'll likely see a you'll likely see some power
lifting stuff on there
before you see like speed and power stuff like that.
That's just kind of not our wheelhouse at the moment.
Let's see.
Curtis says mainly just concerned when it comes
to fat loss clients
in a bigger deficit using a neuro stimulus
for the least amount of inflammation.
Don't forget, Curtis.
I mean volume is, I mean, you don't have to
be all the way down at neuro to limit inflammation.
Like you don't, you don't have to go like as far away
from metabolic as possible
you just have to go far away enough.
Right. So likely you're leaving results
on the table if you're just going
to the opposite extreme for no reason other than like, well
I'm just trying to limit inflammation.
You can limit inflammation with, you know,
hypertrophy rep ranges
with just appropriate volumes and appropriate intensity
and you know, degree of failure, right?
Like if you're doing, if you're doing sets
of eight and you're leaving two reps in the tank
you shouldn't be getting a lot
of inflammation with that unless you're doing too many sets.
Okay. All right.
That looks like the end guys.
Thank you guys for coming on.
And we will see you next week.
Adam: Thanks a lot guys.